WDW Radio # 746 – How Disneyland’s Origins Have Impacted Walt Disney World – From the WDW Radio Archives

Lou Mongello [00:00:08]:

Welcome to another episode from the WW Radio archives. I am Lou Mongello and this is show number 746. And each week or so, I'm gonna select an evergreen episode from the archives to share that maybe you haven't heard before or one that you haven't heard in a long time. From in reviews to top tens relevant reviews, guides, wayback machines, and more, it's a great way to visit or revisit some of our favorite episodes, including ones that you have suggested that I share from the archives. And rather than upload the entire episode, I'm going to take out the relevant segment and then cut out the intro and outro and contest and some out of date news and rumors if they applied. And if you want to hear the full episode, I'm going to let you know the original show number so you can always go back into your podcast player or feed or www.radio.com and listen to the full episode. And for this Week with Walt Disney World's Anniversary coming up on October 1 and this incredible sense of nostalgia and sentiment I've been feeling lately, that's what prompted my idea for this week's visit to the archives and this past week's live show. And if you joined us live, thank you so much for tuning in and being part of the live show. Back on September 20, when we boarded the Wayback Machine and sort of took a trip down Walt Disney World's memory lane, we dove into some nostalgia as we shared memories of days gone by on Walt Disney World. And I shared a lot of vintage photos from the parks, including some of me back in the we all shared the attractions and shows and resorts and of course, food that we remember. And you can watch the full replay and be part of the community and conversation just by going to Wdwradio.com Video. You'll find it right there. But that also kind of got me thinking about the origins of Walt Disney World and some of the inspirations behind it. So this week we're going to go back to show number 179 from early 2010. I can't believe it was 13 years ago because Walt Disney World traces so much of its roots to the original Disneyland in California. And with Walt Disney World's anniversary coming up on October 1, I think it's only appropriate that we take a look at how some of Disneyland's origins impacted Walt Disney World. And Jim Corkus joined me again to share some of the true stories behind the stories as we start in fantasyland with Cinderella Castle and look back at exactly how and where Disneyland began. And Jim shared not just stories that really hadn't been told before, but Walt's own words that served as the proposal for what would become Disneyland and some of the many amazing ideas that carried forward to become what we see today in walt Disney World. After you listen to the episode, I'd love to hear your thoughts. You can share them over in theclubhouse at www.radio.com clubhouse or call the voicemail at four oh 7909 three nine one. That's four oh 7900. WDW one. I'd also love to connect with you on social. I am at LouMongello on all the social channels. But right now, sit back, relax and enjoy this week's episode of the WDW radio show. Who come to this happy place? Welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past. And here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts that have created America with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world. Thank you. July 17, 2010 is going to mark the 55th birthday of Disneyland in California. And you say, well, that's great, Lou, but this is the WDW radio show and we talk about Walt Disney World primarily. But you have to remember that Walt Disney World's roots truly lie in Anaheim, California. And with Walt Disney and with so much that was designed and developed for there. And so with the 55th birthday coming up, I started to think about that history and its ties to Walt Disney World and maybe telling some of those stories that you might not have heard before and how they affected what we have here in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. And as always, when we look to tell some of those maybe untold stories and the stories behind the stories, you know, I need to bring in the one person that is able to tell them through his personal knowledge and experience and expertise. And that is of course, our good friend, Mr. Jim Corkus.

Jim Korkis [00:04:58]:

And Lou, why is it whenever I get pulled out for these things, it's either pouring rain or like today there's heat and humidity. We just saw this little girl walk by who is beet red, look like a lobster. I'm going to call child services for me that you pulled me out here. We're actually in the courtyard of the Magic Kingdom. And again I'm a California boy I grew up in California. Going to Disneyland and coming out to the Magic Kingdom for the first time was a Twilight Zone experience because there's so many things that are so similar but so many things that are so different. So I'm coming through the castle and figure, well, I'll go to the left and I'll go to the pinocchio ride. And people are looking at me like, what pinocchio attraction? There's no pinocchio. And there are significant differences. There's even significant differences in terms of story. And one of the reasons we're in the courtyard over here and we're standing in this section that looks like a circular compass with different directions is once again, guests are walking by something which is very important to tell the story of Fantasyland and especially the fantasy land of Walt Disney World. So you will notice on the edge of the circle there's this entwined metalwork that literally acts as a drain. But it is a theme that is a Celtic circle. And so literally, the thread of life weaves in and out and in and out and comes back to the original source. But you'll notice that there are several threads doing that because the story here in Fantasyland is of many cultures intertwined the stories of Italy, the stories of Germany, the stories of the UK, the stories of America. And so this is the theme and it's large and it's there and it's completely ignored. But I know that this is not random, other than the fact that, of course, I was told this by Imagineers. And I love sharing these stories with other people. I don't even know if there are Imagineers still working for the company who know this story. But there is one other section in Fantasyland that has this same Celtic circle. And I think you passed by it today. Where is it, Lou?

Lou Mongello [00:07:14]:

It is in front of appropriately enough, it's a Small World. And you want to know how I know that? Because you told me today. And I refuse to pretend that I knew that because again, this is why you're so fascinating, because you know these things. And look, I love trying to find the stories and the meaning behind things. And yes, I've looked at this compass and said, why is this here and what does this mean? And never even thinking about the drain around it and then its connections to the one other place. So again, an AHA moment, a minute in.

Jim Korkis [00:07:44]:

Well, I may be fascinating, but I'm still going home alone tonight. You've got a wife and wonderful children. All I have to look forward to is if I have a heart attack in the middle of the night, the cockroaches eat for the next week.

Lou Mongello [00:07:57]:

Well, just so you know, I didn't get my wife by saying, hey honey, do you know what the circle around this compass means?

Jim Korkis [00:08:03]:

It hasn't worked for me either. No. So the Celtic circle is also out in front of Small World because that's the host pavilion. All of the cultures together. You won't find that Celtic circle anywhere else. So again, this is an AHA that you can share with your friends and family. And I hope you know, but we're looking at this magnificent castle. This was designed by Herb Ryman, a terrific artist and some of you know, because we're also talking about Disneyland and Disneyland's relationship with Walt Disney World, that Herb Ryman also designed Sleeping Beauty's Castle for Disneyland. And of course, that went through a lot of different names. At one time it was going to be Snow White's Castle. At one time it was going to be Robin Hood's Castle based on the live action Disney film. That's why on opening day, you had Robin Hood and his Merry Men on the drawbridge. A lot of people don't realize that two AHA moments. So Herb designed that, but he also designed the artwork that literally sold Disneyland. And there's a wonderful story behind that. And we've actually got some special secrets that only Walt Disney World radio listeners will know. Because when I showed you a glimpse earlier today, your eyes popped open and your mouth dropped. But I'm telling you, this slew, I'm not going to share those. It's too hot. My clothes are sticking to me. I'm dripping. I don't even look good on a good day. And this is not just a bad hair day. This is a bad body day. So let's go to someplace where there's air conditioning. Okay, you got it.

Lou Mongello [00:09:40]:

So, Jim, you're cool and you're fed.

Jim Korkis [00:09:43]:

And I didn't get dessert, but I didn't get dessert.

Lou Mongello [00:09:46]:

Well, we'll see how well you do in this segment and what you bring to the table because usually it's trying to pulling teeth, trying to get information out of you. But we got to start off with I need to correct myself because I prefaced this segment by saying that Disneyland's birthday was, of course, July 17, 1955. You literally slapped me about the face and head and said, lou, you're completely wrong, as usual. You told me that the real birthday is September 26, 1953. So explain to me the importance of that date and why it's not really July 17, 1955.

Jim Korkis [00:10:23]:

Well, it explains that Luke can be taught, which I'm sure brings a great delight to your wife. Well, we all know that Walt was always interested in building some type of amusement venue. He was always upset that tourism in California was increasing. But basically what the tourists wanted to do was dip their toes in the Pacific Ocean, pick an orange, and go to Hollywood. And if you've been to Hollywood, it's a dirty, filthy place and the stars aren't walking around. And only in the movies that happens. So Walt wanted someplace when people came out that they could actually see something. So even as early as 1940, he was talking about doing some type of amusement venue either at the studio or near the studio. By 1949, that had evolved into what was called the Mickey Mouse Park, which was going to be done on Riverside Drive, basically in the same area where the animation building is now and the Ventura Freeway. And that was only about 16 acres. And John Hench told me that many of because John Hench lived pretty near the studio, he said he'd be driving by or whatever and he'd see Walt out in this vacant lot with his arms folded, looking around several Sundays. And he had Harper Garoff working on some designs, but it just couldn't fit everything in. And of course, what drove a stake through that idea was they approached the Burbank City Council and Burbank City Council turned it down. They did not want a carnival in Burbank. And so, even though this was Walt Disney, this sounded like a carnival to them. So not going to happen. Not going to happen at all.

Lou Mongello [00:12:12]:

Bad move for Burbank. Great move for us.

Jim Korkis [00:12:15]:

Absolutely. Because then they started to find more land. And so, starting in early in 1953, walt hired Dick Irvine and Marvin Davis. And they were both art directors at 20th Century Fox because Walt was having difficulty talking to architects and he felt they'd be able to act as a liaison. And they weren't getting his ideas because, again, he wanted more of a filmatic experience and he felt that Irvine and Davis would be able to communicate that. So he did this on his own dime, his own payroll. He set up a little building right there by the parking lot going into the studio. And it was called the Zorro Building because he had purchased the rights to Zoro as either a TV series or a feature because it was going to generate revenue for Imagineering. And so he's got Irvine and Davis in this building. And it really is just one step above a trailer type thing because Davis said it was hot in the summer and cold in the winter and there were just these little offices. And what was happening, too, was Walt was buying antique furniture for the Zorro thing and he was storing it in the Zorro Building. So there was a complete dinette set of dark wood that was time period appropriate and chairs and tables and shoving in against the drafting boards. They had a huge storyboard where they were mapping out with pieces of paper different types of attractions and ideas that could be done. And of course, all of this was done by Walt's personal group, which was called WDI. And we know that WDI stands for.

Lou Mongello [00:14:03]:

It has to stand for Walt Disney Imagineering, doesn't it, Jim?

Jim Korkis [00:14:07]:

Actually, it's too soon. It stood for walt Disney, Inc. Which was Walt's personal company. And of course, the stockholders and the board of directors hit the roof because even Walt's contract said that he could do personal projects on the outside. But they felt calling something Walt Disney Incorporated was going to create confusion in the marketplace with Walt Disney Productions. And so Walt, later, in November 1953, changed the name to Wed for Walter Elias Disney, which was, again, really the official beginning of Imagineering. But again, Wed John Hench said they were constantly getting calls from people who thought it was a wedding company and can you plan out our wedding? Not at imagineering rates. Okay. So, anyway, it came time where Walt needed to get funding for his project. So the reason the real birth of the project was September 26, 1953. That was a Saturday morning. And so Herb Bryman had worked at the Disney Studios as an art director. He worked on Dumbo. Fantasia. Saludos, amigos. He left the studio, I think around 1947. And he went to 20th Century Fox, where he was working as an art director. So he knew Dick Irvine and Marvin Davis. And then for the last year, he was on a special commission from John Ringling North to travel with the circus and do circus paintings of Emmett Kelly and all of these things. So it was a Saturday morning, 10:00 A.m., and the phone rings. And so he picks it up and it's Dick Irvine on the phone. And Dick said, Herbie, Walt would like to talk to you about and Walt grabbed the phone from him and said, herbie, how long would it take you to get to the studio? And Herb says this is Saturday. What are you doing at the studio? And Walt goes, well, this is my studio. I can be here on a Saturday, I can be here on a Sunday, I can be here anytime I want. And to hear Herbie tell this story, it's just hilarious because he really captures Walt's incense. How could you possibly be questioning me? And he says, well, how long will it take you to get down here? And Herb says, Well, I could probably get there in about 15 minutes. He says, But I really need to shave and take a bath and get dressed. So maybe about a half hour, 40 minutes. And Walt said, forget about all that. Just come as you are right now. I'll meet you out in front. Well, I wish Herby was still alive so that he could tell this story himself, because he was a marvelous storyteller. And he'd do this with just a sly look on his face and it's just hilarious. So he comes to the studio, walt meets him on the street, takes him into the Zorro Building, and he says, Herbie, we're working on this special project, this live entertainment venue, and my brother Roy is going to New York on Monday to try and convince the moneymen to invest. But you know that these guys don't have a sense of imagination, so need something visual to show them so that they can understand what this project is all about. And Herb says, well, where's the drawing? I'd love to see it. And Walt says, you're going to do it? And Herb immediately says, no, absolutely not. He says, you cannot call me in on a Saturday morning to work on a project where so much is riding on it and your brother's got to take it in Monday. And it'll just embarrass me and it'll embarrass you. I just can't do it. And so Walt sent Irvine and Davis outside the building.

Lou Mongello [00:18:10]:

So he wasn't saying no to Walt. He was saying, this is not what you want to do. It wasn't sort of a, hey, look, it's Saturday. I'm not going to work on it Saturday afternoon.

Jim Korkis [00:18:20]:

No, it was, this is too big a project and I don't want to be held responsible for it. Falling apart because being called in at the last minute to do this. I'd like some time to study this. And this is the first time I've ever heard of it. It all seemed so nebulous because by this time, marvin Davis had drawn 133 different versions of Disneyland. It was Davis who came up with that pear shape, that triangle pear shape there. And so, you know, some of those drawings were there and the elevations, the whole bit. And so, again, Walt sent Irvine and Davis outside the building. And he's walking around with his arms crossed, which is not a good sign with Walt. If his eyebrow goes up, if his arms are crossed, he's tapping. No, this is not good. And so he's standing by this window with his back towards Herb. And Herb says he just turned his face to Herb. And Herb could see Walt's eyes tearing up. And Walt says, Will you do it if I stay with you while you're doing it? And Herb says, I could see that this was so important to him, and so I just couldn't say. So Walt had Irvine and Davis show them the initial things they had done on Disneyland and then sent them away. And then Walt ordered in tuna sandwiches and malted milk. So you want to create your own Disneyland tuna sandwiches and malted milk. And so, for the next 42 hours, it was just Herb and Walt in that room and Walt describing what he wanted. And Herb drawing this now, the sketch. And this is a large drawing. It's 39 inches high, which is about 3ft and 67 and a half wide. So that's about five and a half feet wide. And we've actually seen that drawing, haven't.

Lou Mongello [00:20:19]:

Actually when you took us through Walt Disney One Man's Dream. As you go into that second section of exhibits, the doorways, the archways has a large scale version of that. And we talked a little bit about that. And hopefully people have gone and had a chance to see it because they should, to appreciate this story all the more.

Jim Korkis [00:20:40]:

In 42 hours. The drawing was done. Davis and Irvine come back and they see that Herb and Walter just collapsed. And so they grabbed some color pencils to add some texture and color to the drawing. And sure enough, it was ready Monday morning for Roy to take with him. So the 20 eigth take to New York and try and convince people you need to invest in this. So it's a little unclear exactly who Roy saw. We know that he had discussions with NBC, which was the biggest network at the time. They had like, 64 affiliates. And CBS, that had 30 some affiliates. They didn't even talk to ABC because ABC had like, twelve affiliates. They're like the Dupont network, which nobody knows anymore, but also talk to bankers and all of this. And of course, you can't send Roy to New York just with this picture because nobody can sell the concept like Walt. Nobody can pitch like Walt. So one of the things that they sent along with Roy was something that Walt put together, which was an eight page pitch for Disneyland. And again, this was written primarily by Walt because Marty Scalar hadn't been hired yet. Jack Spears, who wrote a lot of the narration for the Disney TV show disney TV show didn't even exist yet. Joe Reddy in publicity may have helped tweak wordsmith some of this, but this is basically Walt's vision of Disneyland. And what is amazing, and that's why I'm glad we got together today is I recently found a copy of that 1953 pitch. And so as a special gift to celebrate Disneyland's 55th and as a special treat for the listeners of WDW Radio we're going to read some of Walt's original pitch from 1953 of what Disneyland was going to be like. And we're going to talk back and forth.

Lou Mongello [00:22:48]:

And this is where it becomes so fascinating because I think a lot of people are saying, well, yeah, I know the story. We heard the story at One Man's Dream of Roy going with this sketch that they worked on all weekend long. And the rest, as they say, is history. I had never heard. I think most people never knew that there was some associated documentation that went along with it. And to know that it exists is one thing to have a copy of it and as you gave me a chance to look through it, it wasn't past the second sentence that you get such a sense of the importance of this. And knowing that it came from Walt's own words and it wasn't written by somebody else makes it all that more special, magical, important, whatever you want to call, please. And again, the first page alone, the first two sentences alone are really something fascinating. So go ahead.

Jim Korkis [00:23:47]:

And I know that when you first read the document you were blown away by that. The first page literally is just two paragraphs and I think we should have Lou read this.

Lou Mongello [00:23:56]:

You honor me by giving me the so again on a plain sheet of white paper. There's no letter head. There's nothing to it. It says Walt Disney in bold letters and italicize all capitals. It says, Sometime in 1955 we'll present for the people of the world and to children of all ages a new experience in entertainment. In these pages is proffered a glimpse into this great adventure. A preview of what the visitor will find in and on a separate line all by itself. Disneyland.

Jim Korkis [00:24:33]:

I know. Just amazing. And again, that's something that you would do in a document is just do that little brief thing to capture people's imagination. This is what we want to do. And on the second page, of course, this gets more elaborate and we're not going to read the entire document. We're just going to read some excerpts from it. But Walt felt and this is directly from the second page. Disneyland will be something of a fair, an exhibition, a playground, a community center, a museum of living facts and a showplace of beauty and magic. It will be filled with the accomplishments, the joys and hopes of the world we live in and what will remind us and show us how to make these wonders part of our own lives. And Walt really, truly believed this and this is what he wanted for Disneyland. And as the construction started in 1954 and all of this, this is one of the things that helped make decisions. Does this get built this way? Does this happen that way?

Lou Mongello [00:25:39]:

And it's so powerful because again he needs to synopsize in five paragraphs what his vision of Disneyland will be. And you know what? I think we should maybe read the rest of this page because sitting here in Walt Disney World and knowing what his eventual plans were for Epcot, the city to hear some of these things come from his mind and from his pen is really a glimpse into his vision long term of the future. Because he goes on to say it's a place for parents and children to share pleasant times in one another's company. A place for teacher and pupils to discover greater ways of understanding an education. Here the older generation can recapture the nostalgia of days gone by and the younger generation can savor the challenge of the future. Here will be the wonders of nature and man for all to see and understand. Disneyland will be based upon and dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and hard facts that have created America and will be uniquely equipped to dramatize these dreams and facts and send them forth as a source of courage and inspiration to the world. Disneyland will be something of a fair, an exhibition, a playground, a community center like it's at a museum of living facts, a showplace of beauty and magic. It'll be filled with the accomplishments, the joys and hopes of the world we live in. Remind us and show us how to make these wonders part of our own lives. And again, that first sentence so powerful. The idea of Disneyland is a simple one. It's a place for people to find happiness and knowledge. And all those things he talked about education, his love of America, all those things carried forward to Disneyland certainly found their way into Walt Disney World and Epcot.

Jim Korkis [00:27:28]:

And imagine how difficult this was because this had never ever been done before. How do you sell something that had never been done before? Burbank obviously thought this was going to be a carnival. His wife thought it was going to be an amusement park. Why do you want to build an amusement park? They're filthy, they're noisy. Walt says, I'm not building an amusement park. How do you convince people this is something different? Walt was such a visionary and oftentimes it was difficult for him to express exactly what his vision was. Nowadays, oftentimes projects are sold by comparing them with other projects. So for instance, the original Star Trek TV series was sold because Gene Roddenberry described it as Wagon Train to the Stars because Wagon Train was a very popular hour long show. And what happened is you had a core of continuing characters but you had different stories that were complete each week and you could bring in guest stars and things like this and they were all going on this particular journey that they never got to. Longest wagon train in history. But here's Walt trying to explain this is not an amusement park. And again, the term theme park hadn't been invented yet. So how do you explain that? This is a theatrical experience, a movie experience, and of course, one of the things that stayed consistent in all of his proposals, whether it was the Mickey Mouse park or whatever, was a turn of the century main street and of course, a know. And in fact, he explained to Marvin Davis when Marvin Davis said originally, what is this supposed to look like? Walt said this should look like nothing else in the entire world and there should be a train going around.

Lou Mongello [00:29:19]:

Document on the document, the very first thing he enumerates is a description of so it shows the importance of having that train in all the parks. And obviously, again, we see a train in every one of the theme parks.

Jim Korkis [00:29:33]:

Around the world and it was Walt's intent that that train would be the preview like coming attractions. You took the train around the park, so you saw what was there. So that helped you decide where it was you wanted to go. And in fact, in the document here, it says the railroad train with its beautifully appointed coaches takes you on a skyline tour around Disneyland where you will see from your window main street, true life, adventureland, the world of Tomorrow, lilliputian Land, fantasy Land, recreation park, frontier country, treasure island, the home of the Mickey Mouse Club and Holiday Land. And back to the Civic center with its town hall, which is the broadcasting theater for the Walt Disney Television show.

Lou Mongello [00:30:23]:

And again, we have some of those elements we see. But again, that vision that he had for what it would have been obviously much more expansive than the five or six lands that Disneyland had. And we'll touch on some of the details of things like Lilliputian Land and Recreation Land and the Mickey Mouse land. Fascinating how far forward thinking he was already at this time.

Jim Korkis [00:30:47]:

And supposedly it was Herbie that convinced him that, well, you're calling this Disneyland and you've got Fantasy Land and you've got True Life Adventureland. Why do you have Frontier countries? Shouldn't that be frontier land? And you got World of Tomorrow. Shouldn't that be tomorrowland? And it was constantly evolving. And it's interesting that. You're mentioning that yes, there are so many other lands that didn't happen so it looks like Walt's tossing in everything but the kitchen sink. But if you go back and there's plenty of books out there that have Marvin Davis's original design for the Disneyland that was being built in 1954, there are actually spokes from the Hub that were never used. So obviously they were put in there in the hopes that this was going to develop. Now one of the things that we had a great chuckle at when we were reading this earlier is that on Main Street there would be the Disneyland emporium and there would be this mail order catalog. So try and imagine that today. I know a lot of you have been to the emporium at Disneyland and also at Walt Disney World. This was Walt's idea of what that emporium was going to be. On the corner is the great Disneyland emporium where you can buy almost anything and everything unusual clothes, cowboy boots, toys, records, books, ceramics, old fashioned candies, jawbreakers and licorice whips, toys from all over the world, gifts for the person who has everything. Or you can get the big mail order catalog and purchase by mail. The mail order catalog will picture everything for sale in the emporium or for sale any place in Disneyland. If you want a real pony and cart or a miniature donkey 30 inches high you'll find it in the catalog. Or if you want the latest Disney book or toy you can order by mail. And the gift will arrive wrapped in a special Disneyland paper bearing the postmark Disneyland California direct from the Disneyland US post office.

Lou Mongello [00:32:48]:

I'm smiling as you're reading that. Not just because I love the way you read it, but I don't know what's most fascinating about that is his vision for the emporium is not just a souvenir store gifts from around the know candy, everything was sort of crammed into this one store or the fact that he had this idea. Remember folks, pre internet pre of sort of the Disney version of the Sears catalog, anything that we have in the store. So imagine this fat gigantic book with photographs of anything that you wanted to buy in any shop in Walt Disney World or Disneyland coming to your house. You want to order a pony, you can order a pony. Again the scope and the breadth of his vision so forward thinking had that ever. Now imagine that as a collectible if you had a Disneyland emporium catalog at home.

Jim Korkis [00:33:39]:

Well imagine the collectible if you have that pony and especially if you had the original wrapping where it says Disneyland California and the holes poked in it. But again that isn't as outrageous as it might seem because again in the could often buy little Chihuahuas that would fit in a teacup and they'd chip it or turtles, things like that. But yes, my gosh, if I had a Disneyland pony now and an original 55 year old Disneyland pony that you can buy. So just absolutely amazing. And it's important for us to realize, too, that Adventureland originated with the True Life Adventure series that Walt had, which was very popular, very popular documentary series. And up until that time, travel logs were not popular at all. They were sort of the drudge on the market. And True Life Adventureland brought in a story and the lively music and the whole thing. And in fact, Walt's original concept for the Jungle Cruise was going to be real animals until it was pointed out to him that most of those animals are nocturnal, so they'd be sleeping during the day. And at one point somebody said, but Walt, a leopard can leap 20ft. And Walt said, yes, but the boat's only going to be 10ft away. It'll leap right over it. So let's see what Walt had in mind for True Life Adventureland is entered through a beautiful botanical garden of tropical flora and fauna. Here you can see magnificently here you can see magnificently plumed birds and fantastic fish from all over the world and which may be purchased and shipped anywhere in the US. If you so desire, if you wish refreshments that are in keeping with your surroundings. There are fresh pineapple sticks, crisp coconut meals, and exotic fruit punches made from fresh tropical fruits. A river borders the edge of True Life Adventureland where you can embark in a colorful explorer boat with a native guide for a cruise down the river of romance. As you guide through the everglades past birds and animals living in their natural habitat. Alligators lurk along the banks and otters and turtles play in the water around you. Monkeys chatter in the orchid flowered trees.

Lou Mongello [00:36:12]:

Again, not what we ended up with at the Jungle Cruise, but eventually, decades later, his idea of sort of not a safari on the water, but a safari on land comes where we do get real animals over at Disney's Animal Kingdom. So again, wasn't able to implement it initially in 55, 30 some odd years later, his idea finally comes true.

Jim Korkis [00:36:35]:

And again, basically, Walt always had ideas, but sometimes the technology wasn't there to make those come up. So yes, fresh pineapple sticks. So I guess Dole was already in there. The only thing we're missing is the Dole whip. Now for The World of Tomorrow this is the home of the exciting World of Tomorrow television show, which I never heard of before in my life. A moving sidewalk carries you effortlessly into the World of Tomorrow, where the fascinating exhibits of the miracles of science and industry are displayed. The theme for the World of Tomorrow is the factual and scientific exposition of things to come. Among the exhibits that will change from time to time are the mechanical brain, a diving bell monorail train, the little parkway system where children drive scale model motor cars over a modern freeway models of an atomic submarine, a flying saucer, the magic House of Tomorrow with mechanical features that obey the command of your voice. Like a genie. You say please and the door opens. A polite thank you, we'll close it. There are shops for the scientific toys, chemical sets and model kits. Here, the imaginative boy will find a space helmet to suit his needs for interplanetary travel. And if you are hungry, conveyor belts will carry your food through the electronic cooking device of Tomorrow, where you will see it cooked instantly to your liking.

Lou Mongello [00:38:10]:

So am I the only one? And it started to describe this area of exhibits. It wasn't Tomorrowland he was describing. He was describing communicor and he was describing interventions. Eventually, I think he was describing a microwave oven. But again, it's not what we got in Tomorrowland, per se, but it was his vision of what the kind of edutainment that he was going to bring to people that eventually, I think, became Communicore.

Jim Korkis [00:38:37]:

And again, with the early shows on the Disneyland TV show that Ward Kimball made Mars and Beyond Those things, it was very important in those shows for Walt to emphasize that this is science factual, not science fictional. So that's why it's amazing to me that he's including a flying saucer because he wanted it to be the future that's just around the corner, not the future of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. A lot of times people forget that Walt was almost in his 40s when Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon came out. So I wonder how it would affected him if he had been a ten year old kid or a twelve year old kid. But he had gone beyond that sense of wonder for that. It was more amazing to him the actual things that could have happened, but again, amazing to me. A House of Tomorrow, which of course the Monsanto house came so much later. Atomic submarine, the whole bit. Again, so many ideas pouring out of this man that it's just amazing. Now, between tomorrowland and Fantasy Land was going to be Lilliputian Land. Walt loved miniatures, of course. He had the miniature railroad behind his house, the Carrollwood Pacific. Walt made miniatures. And so there was going to be the Lilliputian Land. And for those of you who that seems to ring a bell, but you don't know lilliput was from the novel Gulliver's Travels where Gulliver went and all of these tiny people were there. Lilliputian Land, a land of little things. A miniature Americana village inhabited by mechanical people nine inches high who sing and dance and talk to you as you peek through the windows of their tiny shops and homes. Oh, no. What? It's a small world here, okay? In Lilliputian Land, there is an eerie canal barge that takes you through the famous canals of the world where you will visit the scenic wonders of the world in miniature. Here a little diamond stack locomotive engine 17 inches high, steams into the tiny railroad station. You sit on top of the pullman, coaches like Gulliver, and the little nine inch engineer pulls back the throttle, taking you on the biggest little ride in the land. And for the little people who have little appetites, you can get miniature ice cream cones or the world's smallest hot dog on a tiny bun in Lilliputian Land.

Lou Mongello [00:41:13]:

I mean, it's funny because it almost seems like a gag it almost seems like a gag attraction to have. I mean, obviously, we got nothing like that, other than maybe the concept of a small world going through. But imagine sort of riding like Walt did and his friends did on the Carolwood, sort of sitting on top of these cars as they went around. Obviously, that's where his inspiration came from.

Jim Korkis [00:41:36]:

And again, this vision did come out because, again, we decided to eat off property because we didn't want the little Pushan hot dog for $50 on Walt Disney World property. And again, if anybody's listening out there, I'm just joking. I'm just joking for that to happen. Now, Fantasy Land is a wonderful land of fairy tales come true within the walls and grounds of a great medieval castle whose towers loom 70ft in the air. In the middle of the castle grounds stands a magnificent carousel in the theme of King Arthur and his knights. Now, remember, this is 1953, and this is pretty clear that Walt wanted a merry go round there. He talks about a ride through of Snow White. He talks about a fly through with Peter Pan. He talks about Pinocchio Square with Geppetto's clock shop, Stromboli's puppet show, a miniature traveling carnival and a walkthrough. The wonderful experience of Alice in Wonderland as the White Rabbit takes you down the rabbit hole, through the maze of doors, the rabbit's house, past the Singing flowers, dodo Rock, the Mad Hatter's Tea Party climaxing in the courtroom of the Queen of Hearts. Now, again, this was going to be a walkthrough, and this was actually designed. There are concept sketches that exist by imagineer Bruce Bushman. Now, Bruce Bushman was a large guy, so that's how they determined the ride vehicles in Fantasyland is they would put Bruce in there, and if Bruce could sit there, then they figured there was plenty of room for an adult and a kid in that row there. So Bruce came up with several concept sketches, including one where you would see Tweedledum and Tweedle d, and as you walked by, they would spin and hit each other and whatever. One of the things that I liked in the concept sketches was there was the Caucus race. So you came in through an entrance and there was a revolving floor. So you just stood there and the floor took you on this race that nobody can ever win. And in the center here's, all the characters going every which way and spinning around, and the revolving floor takes you to the exit door that takes you in to the next room. But Fantasyland already Walt has some clear idea of what characters he wants there.

Lou Mongello [00:43:49]:

So this is his first pen to paper really ever description we're going to get of Fantasy land save for the walkthrough of Alice. If he would have said that's almost right out of the guide map of what fantasyland ended up being. I mean it's amazing because usually we hear about the concepts and they evolve and this evolves to eventually Disneyland. He knew exactly what he wanted for Fantasyland. That's pretty spot on.

Jim Korkis [00:44:16]:

Well, one of the imagineers told me, I believe it was John Hench, I'm not 100% sure on this. He said Walt never flew off to never neverland without knowing exactly where he was going. And again, the Alice in Wonderland did ride come in 58, I believe. And even though it was the dark ride through, it covers again some of the scenes that are described here. Now. Walt also wanted a recreation land, which is a little leisure land set aside, a shady park set aside for reservations by clubs or schools or other groups for picnics and outings. I think a lot of people, they go, well, he got us in the park and he's charging us all this money for food. I grew up going to Disneyland in the remember mom and dad packing a picnic lunch. And before you went into Disneyland, over to the left there was a little entranceway for a picnic area so you could go into the park, get your handstamped, come out to your car, get your food, go into the picnic area and eat or eat before you go in. And that was all free and it was right to the left before the ticket kiosks. And it was there, I believe, right up through the again, not really announced, but if somebody asked, they'd be directed to that. Interestingly enough, recreation land eventually became holiday land on the other side of the frontierland tracks. But they found that people were skipping over the tracks to get into Disneyland without paying. So that came to an end. But they had all sorts of events at holiday land like the Calcan Dog show and Calcan was running the kennels at that time and Sergeant Preston of the Yukon was one of the judges because he had this mighty dog whose name I've forgotten right now, but I think it was Yukon King. Yukon King was the name of the dog here. That's what happens when you get I learned something new and it pushes out two or three other things here. Well, let's go into Frontier country where the stagecoach beats the train and the riverboat for its trip down the river to New Orleans. Along Frontier Street is a harness shop and a blacksmith shop, livery stable, assayer's office, sheriff's office and the jail. You can get real western food at the chuck wagon and cowboy clothes six shooters or a silver mounted saddle for your horse or pony at the general store. And then you could ride shotgun on the stagecoaches past Granny's Farm, a practical working farm operated with real live miniature horses, little realizing they were going to be shipped off in packages to kids, okay, miniature cows, oxen and donkeys. And in fact, Walt did have a miniature donkey there, but it had a tendency to bite people so was not really displayed. He even had Herb Ryman paint a portrait of the donkey because he was so proud of the little miniature donkey there. Carry the mail on the Pony Express, ride around the little track and take a mule pack ride with an old prospector for a guide through the colorful mother load country of the pioneer days. Now, the Pony Express ride, at one time, the design for that was you were going to be on moving horses and in front of you was going to be this huge motion picture screen. And so what was happening is as you was riding, it was matching the movement of the motion picture screen. And so you were having that real experience. And so remember Westerns, hugely, hugely popular in the 50s?

Lou Mongello [00:48:11]:

Yeah. And again, Frontierland Two, he's already talking about things like the ferry boat and he's talking about using the real mules. He mentions New Orleans. Obviously, Disneyland gets New Orleans Square at some point. So you wonder what he had actually envisioned in his mind that he had to sort of consolidate down to an eight page document. But again, Frontierland, much like fantasyland, very much true to what he has on this initial document.

Jim Korkis [00:48:43]:

And then, of course, he talks about the Mickey Mouse Club. And the Mickey Mouse club. The best known personality in the world has his Mickey Mouse Club headquarters in Disneyland, located on Treasure Island in the middle of the river, a fantastic hollow tree and serves as the club's meeting place. The hollow tree is several stories high with interesting rooms and lookout spots for club members. There is a Pirate Cove and buried treasure on the island. And direct from this location, the club presents the Mickey Mouse Club television show.

Lou Mongello [00:49:22]:

And again, too, you know, Walt so brilliant in his vision because the importance of TV and The Mickey Mouse Club and bringing that into the parks and introducing the guests to it and letting guests experience it there, obviously making them viewers when they got back home, if they weren't viewers already.

Jim Korkis [00:49:41]:

And remember, this is September 26, 1953. So The Mickey Mouse Show is not even going to premiere for a couple of years. And even the Disneyland TV show not until 1954. And so, of course, Walt was using that as that leverage. That bargain is if you want a TV show, you've got to buy the park. And of course, ABC wanted that park, wanted that show so badly, they bought into the park. And so for $500,000. They got one third of Disneyland. Actually, it's about 33% and some points. And they had to guarantee $5 million of bank loans. But ABC couldn't guarantee $5 million of bank loans. So Leonard Goldstein of ABC actually had to go to a Texas millionaire he knew to have that guy write that he would cover $5 million. And so ABC, right up until the E tickets there in 1959, owned a third of the park. A third of the park was owned by Walt Disney Productions. 17% was owned by Walt and 13% by Western Publishing that published the comic books and the storybooks and all of that. And so the initial investment in Disneyland was $1.5 million because they were absolutely sure it was not going to go beyond 5 million. That's insane. And of course, as we know, it went up to $17 million and maybe even a little bit more than that because Herb told me that towards the end there, of course, they were having cash flow problems, so they couldn't pay bills. So some poor guy was taking these bills when they came in and was shoving them in a desk drawer. So it was months after Disneyland opened that somebody opened that drawer and found all these unpaid bills. Oh, my gosh. And so Walt wanted a holiday land. And it's interesting that some of the things he wanted in holiday land actually happen in the parks today. Holiday Land is a showplace of special attractions that change with the season. Its theme is as current as the calendar. Its decorations, entertainment, or exhibits follow the flowers in spring. So there was going to be a Flower and Garden Festival. Actually, he just calls it the Flower Festival, but that's what it was going to be a Mardi Gras special easter activities, mother's Day summer brings July the 4 July activities and circus time with a circus parade down Main Street and a one ring circus. In the fall, there'd be a harvest festival, a Halloween special, girl Scout Week winter with its ice skating rink, sleigh rides and Bobsled Hill with real snow, and Christmas Tree Lane that leads to Santa's home at the North Pole.

Lou Mongello [00:52:46]:

Again, in some form or fashion, we have pretty much all of that other than sort of the but we've got those seasonal I mean, he saw ahead of time. We need to keep rotating things and changing things, giving people reason to come back during the different times of year because their experience will be different, much like it is here. Christmas in Walt Disney World is very different than coming any other time of year. And there's a reason to come for the not so scary Halloween party and things like that. He mentions, like you said, the flower festival. We have, obviously, the flower and garden festival. So it's just fascinating to me. Again. This is document one. This is not something that came out in 1982.

Jim Korkis [00:53:25]:

This is 53 and yes, I think a lot of Disney fans are a little hesitant when the Disney Company comes out and does something and says, well, this is what you know sometimes. Really? How do you know what Walt wanted? And I'm a little suspicious of this quote because it has an ellipses in it. Ellipses are those three little dots. So you have Walt starting to talk, and then suddenly there's three little dots, and it's like there could have been paragraphs in those three little dots. What's going on? See? And again, this is one of the reasons that Disney desperately needs a Disney historian, somebody who understands the stories. Now, the archives is terrific because the archives archives the material. So the material is there. But what a historian does is this historian then finds that material and interprets it and brings out the story. And so how amazing would it be if the Disney Company said, yes, we're having the Flower and Garden Festival, but this is a salute to Walt Disney, who in 1953, this was his original vision for Disneyland. This is what he felt guests needed and wanted. In fact, Dick Irvine said, when we were working on that storyboard, the reason we came up with the sections that we did was Walt kept saying, what do guests need? So it wasn't trying to shove down their throat of here it is, and you'll like it's. I've looked at people and I understand that. And in fact, early Disneyland, when it opened, it was constantly changing because that's why you didn't call them rides. You called them attractions because there was the realization that this was a film experience. The famous story, of course, is Walt was sitting on a bench by the rivers of America watching The Mark Twain, and there was an elderly couple there. And again, Walt wasn't as well known as, of course, he would later become by constantly hosting the TV show. And he loved talking to the guests, and he asked them what they liked in Disneyland. And the woman said, oh, my husband loves The Mark Twain and I can't get him off the train, but we don't go on any of the rides. We don't like rides. And so that's why they stopped becoming rides. They became attractions. Not all of the pathways were originally made in Disneyland because Walt said, the people will tell you where they want to walk. Watch them. And that's true. You know that if a house is on a corner lot, people don't go to the edge and around. Usually they try to cut across the lawn to get to the other side. So Walt was always taking a look at what was going to work for the people. And so let's wrap this up with what Walt wrote on the last page. And again, he's desperately trying to convince these people to buy into this project. And I don't want to spoil it for you, but on Roy's trip, no interest at know it wasn't until, you know, things started to fall into place. Disneyland will be the essence of America as we know it. The nostalgia of the past with exciting glimpses into the future. It will give meaning to the pleasure of the children and pleasure to the experience of adults. It will focus a new interest upon Southern California through the mediums of television and other exploitation. It will be a place for California to be at home, to bring its guests, to demonstrate its faith in the future. And mostly, as stated in the beginning, it will be a place for people to find happiness and knowledge.

Lou Mongello [00:57:23]:

And that's a pretty accurate description of the and look, you know, people talk about Disneyland as the place that Walt walked. And because of that, it has a special importance to it. And so many other people are credited appropriately so with the development of Walt Disney World because obviously Walt wasn't here. But that document is important because it shows how much of his influence really did come to what we have even today, 2010, in Walt Disney World and how his vision was carried forward by the people who he left behind. And he may not have actually walked down Main Street, but his influence and his words are definitely there on Main Street in Future World, in Hollywood studios in Africa and Animals Kingdom.

Jim Korkis [00:58:15]:

And again, remember, we're having the same team build the Magic Kingdom. You have Dick Irvine. In fact, we even have a steamboat named after Richard Irvine, marvin Davis doing the same design work, herb Ryman. So people who had worked closely with Walt and understood his vision, but they also understood that an important part of his vision is I don't want to duplicate myself. I don't want a carbon copy. Let's expand on what we've learned. And so Magic Kingdom has some of those best elements of Disneyland, but it also has the Imagineers starting to explore how could we have done this better if we had more space, if we had more money, and not just making something larger? Tony Baxter, the Imagineer tony Baxter, who really is a keeper of the stories. You're a good guy, Tony. Tony Baxter said that Disneyland is an intimate experience, but that Walt Disney World is a spectacular experience. And again, that's why they didn't want certain things. They didn't want a Pirates of the Caribbean because, well, that should know to Disneyland. What we'll do out here is we'll do Big Thunder Mesa because pirates were close to where real pirates were. But that was one of the things that people wanted. Country Bear Jamboree first came to Walt Disney World and then went to Disneyland Space Mountain. So Magic Kingdom was to experiment with some of these concepts, some of these beliefs, some of this philosophy that Walt had even in 1953. So as we celebrate Disney's birthday, July 17, 2010, and of course, as most Disney birthdays, this will go on for a year. We don't know how long it'll go on, but at least a year. Maybe take a little time on September 26 to celebrate. This was the real beginning of Disneyland because up until then, there was nothing really written down. There were some concept sketches and as I said, Marvin Davis had done some designs. But it wasn't until Herbert Ryman drew that painting which again got adapted. Peter Ellen Shaw did painting on a storyboard which Walt used on the TV show. And it's closer to what the actual park became. But it was that weekend, 42 hours, that has really changed the world.

Lou Mongello [01:00:57]:

And when you see that painting again and when you think about that story and you see that it's Herb Ryman's pen that was put to paper, remember that? It was his pen to paper. But Walt guiding his hand over that weekend, that's not Herb's concept of what Disneyland should be. That was Walt's concept of Disneyland and what it should be.

Jim Korkis [01:01:18]:

In fact, Herb told me and again, he had a really dry sense of humor. And when I talked with him about that sketch, he says and this was decades later, so I didn't talk to him until the he said, I still feel the heat of Walt's breath on the back of my neck.

Lou Mongello [01:01:42]:

And that's why that picture is so important. That's why that document is so important. I'm so happy you were kind enough to share something that I have never heard. I don't think most people who are listening probably ever even knew was in existence. And to hear Walt's words and think about what we have today and look at that picture and look at what's progressed here since 71 and Disneyland since 55, he was a genius and he was truly ahead of his time. And I think that the people who have followed him, we talk all about what would Walt do, what would Walt think? And there is no way that's an unfair question. But if you look at that document, take the sort of philosophy from it and say you think outside the box. You do what has never been done before. You can do the impossible. You can dream it. And look, he dreamt it in 53 and it might not have happened in 55, but he eventually was able to do it.

Jim Korkis [01:02:35]:

And also most important, I think in that philosophy is it's the guests. Put yourself in the shoes of the guests, the ones who are waiting in the queue line, the ones who are standing out in the sun, the ones who have to come up with that money to buy that Coke. What do they really need? And that's why Disney was so successful with the movies and also with the park, is he gave people what they needed and what they wanted because it was always done from their perspective. When Walt was criticized, well, that's too corny or whatever he says. I like corn, and a lot of other people obviously like it as well. And one of the things that's important to reading this is all of these things were designed specifically for the entire family to enjoy them. There's no height restrictions. None of these things say, well, on this attraction, you have to be at least 47 inches tall, or you can't go on and enjoy it. I was talking with Lou earlier that I wish there were many, many more attractions like Small World, where a grandfather can take on his great granddaughter and they can both enjoy the attraction. They don't have to worry about, am I the right size to fit in here? And they'll enjoy it at different levels, but they'll enjoy it together because an amusement park separated families, and it was chaotic. And I'm starting to see elements of that in Disney parks now, too, where it's loud and it's chaotic and only I wandered around in the park earlier today, and the parents really wanted to go on Splash Mountain, but the two little kids did not want that drop. Fortunately, Disney does supply a little waiting area where they can go and play, but it's not the same thing. You want to experience it together. And what is important for the guests don't tell the guests they want this. Ask the guests, and then develop from.

Lou Mongello [01:04:42]:

Look, you know, he says it in here, and it's been documented so many times elsewhere that together time, that family time, was of most importance. And look, when we talked about one man's dream and some of the things we talked about recognizing Walt Disney, the person, and that's what this document helps to do, is personalize Walt Disney and his influence on the parks. He's not a brand. He's not a logo. He's not Mickey Mouse. There was a person that drove this. And that document illustrates that there was one man that really drove that vision forward. And everything that we have today really does stem from probably you can trace it back to that first document.

Jim Korkis [01:05:26]:

And Lou, again, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and to the Disney Company. I am willingly available to be a resource if you want it. And for the rest of you, I'm available for children's birthday parties and BA mitzvahs. Contact me through, you know, I'll tell those little four year olds some Disney history stories. It's much more entertaining than balloon animals and cheesy magic tricks. But again, thank you so much, Lou. And for those of you who are listening, remember that you have a responsibility. You have a responsibility now to share these stories with others. LUTH says that I'm generous in terms of sharing this material. I'm doing this so the stories do not die. You are the ones that are going to have to keep it alive. And Lou, again, thank you so much. And thank you for the meal. And even without dessert, this was a wonderful experience. I guess next time there's dessert.

Lou Mongello [01:06:27]:

Feeling like you're so cheap, Lou, the guy shares that with you. You don't even give him Victoria and Albert's. You know, we can only be in there for so many hours, Jim, and then they finally kick us out. But yeah, no, the thanks do go to you, because instead of keeping these as my stories, where I've got this incredible document that I'm not going to share, you are doing a service to the people who are listening, who do hopefully carry these stories forward. You do it on the show, for which I'm so grateful. You document so many more in Celebrations magazine, which are just wonderful. So thank you so much, and I'm.

Jim Korkis [01:07:01]:

Looking forward to doing this again soon. And, yes, you mentioned Celebrations magazine. Wonderful magazine. Love the writing of Jim Corkus in there. Make sure you guys subscribe. And again. Thank you, Lou. Looking forward to doing this again in the future. Many times.

Lou Mongello [01:07:17]:

And now here is Walt Disney. Welcome to a little bit of Florida here in California. This is where the early planning is taking place for our so called Disney World project. Everything in this room may change time and time again as we move ahead, but the basic philosophy of what we're planning for Disney World is going to remain very much as it is right now. We know what our goals are. We know what we hope to accomplish. And believe me, it's the most exciting and challenging assignment we've ever tackled at Walt Disney Productions.